1. Why you need to get outside of your box and go to a conference you just don’t have time for!
2. Why people you meet can make you more healthy
3. My big regrets……..?
4. What I heard and my interpretation of it?
I left the Ancestral Health Symposium about an hour ago and my mind was abuzz with many thoughts and I was quite excited by what I heard these last few days. What was more inspiring to me was some of the people I met. Some were people I had an “ambient awareness” from their internet persona and others were completely new to me who made an indelible impact. Others came up to me to introduce themselves and just talk, and they made me a better person for sharing some ideas with me. I was so inspired, that as I drove back to the hotel I had to call my wife to tell her about the talks that just blew me away. I know many of the “chronologically younger” paleo netizens are out partying in West Hollywood tonight, but I have to sleep to protect my telomeres! And yes my telomeres are now at 29 years old for this old man down form 55 yrs old when I was a fat ass at 350 lbs.. So I think I am doing well blogging while others are out configuring Tabata sexual clinical trials. ( check the AHS twitter feed for an explanation) So what happened? I had my core shaken about exercise and then I was brought to tears about a talk on Zoo’s from a guy from NYC who made a “Jumbo” elephant very relevant to this surgeon. Lets dive into the Paleopalooza…
The first day I got up very early at 3 AM for two crazy reasons. The first one was because I was seriously Jet lagged because the airlines lost my luggage and I had no clothes and none of my supplements to offset my jetlag. The second, more important reason was to write a blog on August 5th because of two UCLA students I met on the Santa Monica pier that I cataloged on my blog. I went to the mall in Santa Monica and scored some clothes for the first day of AHS11 (not sure if it was sweatpunk Melissa?) but at the end of the day I was dead tired because of the events surrounding my arrival. It bummed me out because I had planned to meet up with some “netizens” but my bad luck put that too bed literally and figuratively. I truly regret not having the opportunity to meet these folks because I feel I missed out on something big. I felt this way because of the “new people” I did meet completely blew my mind and really made this trip a lifetime experience. I met several docs, who will rename nameless, (lol) who are firmly in our paleo camp but have not figured out how to come “out of the closet” to their fellow MD’s. These people are awesome docs. Really, they made this trip special for me. I re-lived my own coming out to them and told them its not as bad as they think. They were here because they knew from a gut level they needed to be there but they had no idea how to make this work with their practice in their current jobs. This is not a topic I would expect any of my readers to fully understand, but as a surgeon who has had to live that painful experience, I felt an immediate bond with them and I wanted to lend my support in any way possible. These are the people who will eventually serve our “Paleolites” in the future. Even people well steeped in a paleo lifestyle will need a doc at some point whether they believe it now or not. These docs took the greatest first step in realizing that they needed to be here even if they felt “lost” in how to apply what they now know to be what out new paradigm should be.
I met 17 patients at the AHS 2011. I got a ton of business cards and made notes on every one. I will answer your inquires, I promise. Many just walked up stuck a hand in my hand and just began to talk openly to me. This displayed to me massive trust. It was rather refreshing to say the least. I heard and felt their frustrations. I did all that I could in the short time we had but my interactions with these people made me realize that I have to continue on fighting the battle to get to change in my profession. I was particularly moved by one man from SF who had a serious genetic disease who was here to get to the bottom of his condition. He asked great questions to one of the presenters and after that talk he came up to me to ask for my clinical insights. His story made my resolve even greater that there is a huge need in the paleo community to meld the “best clinical and academic research” with the best clinical medicine we have to offer him. I hope there is more clinical application talks in future AHS 2012 talks for sure. I thought this was the gaping hole in the conference.
I met two CEOs of major companies who sat me down and wanted to know what they could do make a difference. I think they wanted to know about themselves but I told them instead to focus on their employees. If their business ran smoothly with their employees, and kept the owner’s cortisol low, I felt this would be the best way to keep them healthy long term. They both looked at me with big eyes, but admitted they never thought about that angle. I told them both that they need to focus less on cost savings and more on keeping their work force healthy to increase their employees productivity. I gave them my top five Rx’s for doing this and I told them they needed to track down Jamie Scott at this meeting. His talk, done in concert with Emily Deans MD, really spoke to me about the need for employers to make the well being of their employees a big priority in their business plans going forward. If you do not take care of your main capital investment, people, who are your interface to the outside world, they will fail under the load of stressors you put them under! After all, we are only as strong as our weakest link. I briefly met Jamie at Masterjohn’s talk, and shared with him some of the ideas Google has instituted in their corporate culture to offset the cortisol releases they put their employees under. Jamie’s talk really got me thinking about my own environment in surgery and my own team. They are vital to my success and I need to use some of Jamie’s keys myself. We all can seek to improve our former selves. Thanks for that reminder, Jamie. Dude…loved the accent as well.
I listened intently to Dr Richard Feinman’s (Downstate medical school professor of biochemistry and Metabolism in NY) talk and realized that this man speaks softly and carries a large stick. He spoke on nutrition but what he said between the lines about the current political situation in academic medicine was spot on. I spoke briefly to Karen DeCoster (blogger) about this issue late today, and I believe what Dr. Feinman was concerned about was real. There are always secondary gain issues we must remain cognizant of in research and in academic medicine for sure. But we can also use that issue to our own devices in the paleo community if we understand the “other side” of the sword. I believe my message to Karen was loud and clear and hopefully she considers what I said carefully.
Dr. Lustig maybe just the Rx the paleo community needs if we all play our cards correctly. Now getting to Dr. Lustig’s talk…personally, I felt his lecture was electric and far better than the “Sugar the Bitter Truth” that made him world famous several years ago on YouTube. I had time to speak with him several times and have him answer one of my questions on vagal nerve stimulation for weight loss (levee five). While I completely understand Dr Feinman’s strong objections to the Dr Lustig’s current political agenda in the SF basin with regards to government intervention in the fructose battle, Dr. Lustig has now made it clear to the world that he has embraced leptin as a major player in the development of childhood metabolic syndrome. His data will be published in the Journal of Pediatrics in a few weeks. I think this will open some eyes in the world I swim in. This is a huge step for Dr. Lustig, but an even bigger step for “Paleo mankind” if you ask this surgeon. We need to have more docs realize this movement is based upon deep science and not cavemen reenactments. The Kracken brought that point to our community with laser beam focus today in his talk. We need more docs in academic medicine to embrace a new paradigm. While Dr. Lustig’s approach may not serve Dr Feinman’s vision, I can not tell you how happy I was to see Dr. Lustig put both of his feet firmly in the paleo community whether he likes to admit it openly or not. I really like the old guy to be honest. He reminds me of what I do not like in academic medicine, but my gut tells me that is is “good people” at his core. We will see if my gut or Dr Feinman’s brain is correct.
Lustig’s talk was a beacon sign that change is indeed possible even in academic medicine. I believe Dr. Lustig’s talk at the AHS will set a new bar in many of my fellow MD’s minds about thinking about about fructose and leptin resistance. While I dont think fructose is the “DOMINANT CAUSE” of our current obesity epidemic in the USA, I do think in children it is the major driving factor. I think in adults excess omega 6 consumption in concert with fructose and carbohydrate excesses are the classic perfect storm story for obesity. Both of these substances cause leptin resistance and both need to be removed from our diets. This is why a paleolithic diet is a complete Rx for rockstar health. Their deadly combination make sense to eliminate and there is great evidence for it in the literature and it is biologically most plausible etiology we have in 2011.
Speaking of “Dominant causes of obesity”………..The buzz from day one was from Gary Taubes “ripping” Stephen Guyenet on his food reward series. Personally, many of you know I completely disagree with Dr. Guyenet on this topic, but I think he is a great blogger with a great mind. Maybe Gary’s tact could have been better allocated; but he said what had to be said, in my view. I would also remind many that even within a family it is normal to have disagreements from time to time. I personally think this a good thing that with in a group of like-minded folks we can disagree at times. I complained loudly to Jimmy Moore on his Facebook wall and forum about Gary Taubes being “soft” with Dr. Oz earlier this year. So I can not fault him one bit when he decided to sink his canines in to Dr Guyenet at the AHS. I personally wanted to see Gary bare some teeth after the Dr. Oz debacle and this weekend’s showing tells me he can evolve. That to me was a positive in a bad situation. It does not in one bit negate the major contributions of Dr. Guyenet at all in my view. I just think he had a bad day with his food reward series. We all have bad days at times. No harm no foul.
The afternoon session of today was just magical. It began after a lunch break where I had the chance to interact with many people I had never met. That meeting was just humbling. They shared stories with me that just made me realize how lucky I am to be a physician when people can just tell you such personal things without evening knowing them. It began with Melissa McEwen talk about the colon and gut microbiome. She gave me some insight to sacral iliac degeneration that I had never considered before when she showed pictures of the anatomy of the great apes pelvis on a slide. I wrote down these thoughts I had, and I promise you she may help lots of patients in Nashville with her talk. Her boyfriend, Chris Masterjohn’s talk, also was highly informative and provocative. It became more personal when an audience member stood up and asked Chris what to do about his Familial Hypercholesterolemia. To me…that made the session. It brought it from the research bench top hypothesis to real clinical medicine in about 90 seconds. A good job for sure by a real bright guy. UConn is fortunate to have him in my view.
Next up was John Durant. You must visit this guy’s blog. When he began talking about zoos…and elephants I was ready to run for the pisser in the hall. But then he got into the story of Jumbo the elephant in a Paris zoo and PT Barnum in NYC…and well, then I cried. Seriously, no bullshit. Like real crying paleo style. Like some one stole my carcass post kill. I cried not for Jumbo, but I cried for my wife’s pet, Mr Big. My wife Sandy, is a huge horse lover. She has owned horses her entire life and it is an integral part of who she is. I have to be brutally honest and tell you that as a former NYer, horses never have moved me at all. I just don’t get it I guess. I thought of them as something one hires on 59th and 5th Ave. for a ride from Central Park to the Carnegie deli. But last month my wife’s prized show horse had to be put down. He developed a cervical disc herniation and suddenly became partially paralyzed. It absolutely devastated my wife and I could see it in her face and her sleep patterns. I felt her grief not from the horse…but from her own misery and decline in her health for those two weeks. I never fully understood what she was going through until I heard Mr Durant’s talk about Jumbo. When he was speaking at the AHS, it dawned on me that my wife’s horse may have gotten his cervical herniation from his grain diet. I recalled, as a spine surgeon, that a lumbar cage we used 15 years ago in neurosurgery was developed by a vet in Louisville, KY who worked on horses. I emailed this vet while John spoke about Jumbo and how he died because of his bad dentition from grain and whiskey drinking! Yes……John said this! And the vet replied to me that indeed he developed the BAK cages because of grain induced degeneration of horse vertebral discs! The irony was not lost on me. Here I was a spine surgeon, listening to a talk on a Jumbo elephant by a guy from NYC who has long hair and runs bare foot…and he opened my eyes to why my wife’s horse had to be euthanized. I felt sick to my stomach. Her horse died from a neolithic disease right under my own nose and I could have have saved my wife’s heartbreak if I would have applied the paleo principles at home as I do at work. It killed me. I cried right there in Ackerman Hall and called my wife to tell her what I knew. I also shared it with John Durant. Crazy how things are connected I tell you.
Next up was Andreas Eenfeldt MD. Dude is like 6’5 and trim and has a way cool accent. They call him the diet doctor in Sweden. He is a tight friend of Jimmy Moore who is a pretty cool guy in his own right. Glad I got to meet Jimmy and hear Dr. Eenfeldt. We American docs can learn a lot from our Swedish counterparts. It amazed me that in Sweden their medical board tried to have a doctor’s privileges removed for curing type two diabetes using paleo techniques. It was also cool seeing one of Dr Eenfeldt’s success story patients make the trip to LA to show us all what is possible live. Great talk and motivational for sure. When the talk is released online make sure you watch his map of the USA graphic several times. It shows what has occurred in the USA since USDA told us to go low fat high carb. I promise you if that does not hit you in the gut nothing will.
The next talk that was note worthy for me was that of Erwan LeCorre of MovNat.com If you don’t know about him. You better go find out about him. The ladies will be seduced by his good looks, his accent, and his soft calming tone of his voice, but I was transfixed by his message. This was the best talk of AHS in my opinion. I thought nothing could top Lustig’s talk…but for me…this was the pinnacle. Words can not describe how serenely he described his method and his craft. As I listened, I felt more calm and even made a twitter comment to Dr. Deans that I felt my cortisol was dropping as he spoke. This talk needs to be viewed by all non-attendees and re reviewed by all of us who heard it. It was that good. Just awesome wrapped around WOW surrounded by thick pastured bacon strip! I will need to rethink my exercise position and I am clearly signing up for MovNat at some point.
The last talk I went to……was Brent Pottenger’s et al. And while I never expected it to raise my BP and ire…WOW did it. It may have been the quickest talk but most important. The point of the talk was how can we bridge the gap of evolutionary biology and our current healthcare system. Brent and Joe Sobolewski think Kaiser’s or the VA’s model may hold the answer. This surgeon could not disagree more vehemently. I think all those who heard me speak post-meeting know where I stand. Seth Roberts, Karen DeCoster and Jolly all saw it…and Jolly photographed the jugulars bulging from my neck. I definitely think Brent’s idea to make a Paleo ACO or insurance pool is a great idea…but how we implement it is another story for another day. Those young bucks who have just begun to play in the healthcare cesspool system we have have much to learn. I bet Brent changes the most as he enters medical school in 5 days. When he comes out of an orthopedic residency I already know what he can not fathom yet…Kaiser is the last place on earth he would ever practice orthopedics when he knows what this surgeon knows today. Paleo needs a system that is completely free of the hospital complex in my view. This maybe a place I take my blog now……not sure my health could handle it though.
WRAPPING IT UP:
I hope AHS 2012 incorporates an iPhone/iPad list of all attendees numbers, twitter accounts, and emails so that we can make more connections when we meet. We need a live feed for the rest of our paleo community to live this as we did. I really regret not being able to meet some people I wanted to meet like Dr. Deans (best blogger in my view), Paul Jaminet, and Mike Eades and some of the PH crew I interact with. I did not get to speak long to Robb Wolf or to Mark Sisson but both of their talks were solid. The Kracken…well, he is just a geeks dream to speak too. I briefly met Denise Minger and she made a nice impression. A beautiful young lady with a gorgeous mind. I hope to one day share some wine with her. Jimmy Moore is just a great PR guy for our community. I can not say enough good things about what he does to further the cause. I also wish I could have spent more time with some of those patients who laid their cards on the table. I also enjoyed speaking with future paleo doctors I met there. Four future docs to be exact, who got an eye wide open view to our profession. I know this blog was long…….but I had to write it once I got back to the hotel room……….it was so fresh and I was very inspired. I love mind expansion. In the poster section, I must give a shout out to David Pendergrass of the University of Kansas. His poster was rockstarish if you ask me. The neuroregulation of appetite is a tough assignment to push out on a poster, but I loved watching Karen Pendergrass getting this info from David. Just so cool to see information transfered without a USB drive live. You can see thinking occur in peoples eyes as you speak……to me that is totally paleo! OK……enough. While the rest of community is out partying I am going to lift heavy things and try to climb some trees MovNat style. Erwan got me motivated. Its on like Donkey Kong now.
What I like best about conferences is how they force me to think outside my usual construct. If we always do what we’ve always done, we will get what we’ve always got. I really enjoy getting my mind stretched like a canvas, because in the end it never goes back to its earlier dimension.
When this conference gets posted on the net watch it…….there might be a few thoughts in there that could change your own DNA.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I was so bummed that I couldn't go! Can't wait for AHS12 — I hope you'll be speaking there!
This meeting gave us all food for thought……really did. I am sure somethings will make more headlines but I wrote this within an hour of coming back to the hotel while it was fresh on my mind…….off to get in the hot tub now to reduce cortisol.
I don't know much about the AHS but I can really feel the passion radiating from you, Dr. Kruse. It's very inspiring. I often feel so alone in my low-carb, Paleo path. I just don't know how to reach out to people, esp as just a 23yr old, who's going to listen to me? It's even worse when people around me such as my friends need this dietary intervention but it's hard for me to both explain/convince them to challenge convention, as well as not to seem a meddling a-hole. So many lives, both personal and professional, going down the drain around us each day, and the answer is right here.
I personally hope Lustig, as well as Taubes, becomes stronger in the mainstream community. As an obese child, I used to drink 5 20oz sodas a day to the point where I had headaches from hypoglycemia. I think it stunted my growth during my teenage yrs and explains the generalized skin scarring on my body. Every time I had a wound or scratch, it wouldn't heal properly if I was leptin resistant and had high cortisol. I also always felt I had loose joints and ligaments, being prone to injury even though I'm very strongly built by nature. But it's never too late to correct my health, and my family's…who I preach to them to the point where they follow the Paleo Diet just to make me stop HAHA!
Keep up the passion, doc. I look forward to new entries every day.
Also, could I just ask you for your thoughts on one matter. I used to box competitively (to keep my weight down, the wrong way) but it caused me a few injuries, the one most severe is a chronic, intermittent back pain (not sharp) in my thoracic spinal area, right near the middle on both sides. Doctors did an EMG and found nothing wrong with the muscle, chiropractors worsened it by cracking my already loose joints. X-ray showed moderate degeneration of thoracic spine. My own hypothesis is repetitively hitting the heavy bag/punching (which taxes the back tremendously) weakened ligaments in that area, hence the hypermobility/cracking of my back. Given I was leptin resistant following a high-carb diet + chronic inflammation/bodyweight fluctations, I don't think I ever healed properly.
Following the Paleo Diet seemed to have halted the pain/ache in the thoracic area but only if I don't tax that area from weights/boxing, implying the injury still exists. Do you have any thoughts to what my problem may be, and what I can do about it aside from eating Paleo/eggs/offal? I am considering prolotherapy in just that specific area, it seems like a promising, holistic method of re-stimulating my own immune system to heal injured ligaments using sugar solution injections, especially given I am healthier and more leptin sensitive nowadays.
Sorry if that was long, but if you had any advice or thoughts, it could really change my life. My doctors didn't know and I was hesitant about seeing a traditional orthopedic spine surgeon. I appreciate it, Dr. Kruse!
Thanks Jack, I missed going there last minute.. But you have more than made it up by this blog, and thanks again for your time to do this fresh out of the place, your thoughts are priceless. Now I am keenly looking forward to their postings on the web and finally, let me echo @Jenny's thoughts – hope to see you as a presenter next year.
@ Resurg……many of the presenters this year were also rans……yes I will say it publically. Why do I say this? I don't like talks where people just get up there and read off a laptop for 45 minutes in the dark. But that is just me. But they contributed in a big way. But some were so good I would have flown out twice, Erwan LeCorre, Jamie Scott, Andreas Eenfeldt………and Lustig's talk was just fucking ridiculously good for a geeky doc like me…………some of the people I wanted to see and did disappointed me for many reasons…….but I will never focus on the bad…..or the cant's of the conference…….only on the good and I can's……..this community is filled with many great minds. Many have no degrees ( and I'm beginning to think this is a positive) but I came away more impressed with their collective intelligence than I do at neurosurgery meetings. Ok I just pissed in some serious cornflakes here folks! It was refreshing to go to a meeting a be a fly on the wall…….not having to measure up to anyone's Rx for me. I was able to sit back, in my recently bought clothes mind you, and just listen and think……..and ask questions. Seth Roberts had zero clue who in the hell I was……but when he heard my rant after Brent's lecture…….he knew that I was passionate……..even if he thought I was crazier than one of his N-1's. I dont care what anyone thinks…….I care about the evolutionary science that dictates my patients outcomes………..That is critical to me
I think many hand no clue how much I enjoyed this meeting because they have no clue what it is like to go to a normal neurosurgical meeting and play the game I have to play. Maybe I still wore that game face…..not sure. but the patients and many others came up to me and spoke up. Some I felt avoided me like the plague……….we have to play together to win together.
Matt Lalonde spoke to me clearly in his talk…….he told the caveman in the group………if you want to be taken seriously drop the paleo/caveman bullshit and lets stick to science. Matt stressed organic chemistry and said structure predicts ultimate biologic activity……..he was speaking diet and paleo…….but in my world that means synthetic hormones don't freaking equal bioidentical hormones. I know it but my profession is completely blind to the organic chemistry. A patient came up to me and Matt and talked synthroid and I stopped him dead in his tracks……..I said did you not listen to Matt……..stereo chemistry is critical. If is it not like God/evolution dictated it……..it is dogshit pure and simple. The guys face was worth a million bucks. He did not get that level of seriousness from his docs at home. We need that to change.
Matt is a rock star to me…….he really is. Robb really sits on Matt's shoulders. Robb is a master marketer and speaker…….Matt is a no nonsense science guy who can say fuck you to anyone. He is my kind of guy. But you know what……Matt really cares. I told several docs today at AHS that no one gives a shit how much you know or how smart I am until they know I care about them……….Matt gives a shit. Robb gives a shit. In fact everyone at this conference who spoke gives a shit. They did this for free. No one was paid. It cost me a fortune to take off an go there. We all did it because it matters.
I have a totally different perspective than most of the people at this meeting. Among healthcare people most who are there are PCPs…….not super subspecialists at the top of medicine's pyramid. Dr Lustig asked me with a straight face……Jack why in the fuck is a neurosurgeon here? And you know what………CW says I should not be here. But I was here and saw to it even though this meeting did not meet my schedule……..but sometimes you need to do things that matter……things that are correct intuitively. I knew that I had to be there from my gut……….and I listened to my "formerly leaky gut" and it was correct. People may not get me……..but they know that I care……..and ultimately to my patients……..that is all that matters.
The thing about Lustig that bothers me is that when you watch "Sugar the bitter truth," He talks about government being in bed with the agricultural industry as a bad thing. Now he wants that same government to tax and regulate fructose by imposing taxes?
He may be a great researcher but he does not understand that taxes are to raise revenue, not punish people.(I know they do this already to some extent, I am not stupid, I just believe it is amoral and wrong.) Perhaps he thinks this will work because more enlightened people will be in charge? I see this as incredibly naive.
Stick with research and getting the message out via science and education, leave my kid's Happy Meal toy and social engineering alone.
I do however like how you break him into a dichotomy. That is how I currently see him.
@Que. I will call you and tell you what I really think but I think his agenda is fostered by his current environment at UCSF. There is no more liberal place in the US and I think when you live in Rome you begin to start being and acting like a Roman. But I think this community can gain much from Dr Lustig if they allow themselves to consider some alternatives possibilities. In medicine we tend to favor big moves or actions to make big changes to diseases. This mindset pervades our streaming consciousness all the time and affects our thought pattern. In the beltway they think differently. They make incremental change and come back and bite at the apple several times with multiple pieces of legislation before we really see change. This is precisely what we see in healthcare policy making today called Obama care and what is going on now with the debt ceiling crisis. Dr Feinman made his point loud and clear. But Dr Lustigs message about fructose is a great one on the avoidance of fructose from my perspective as a doctor. I'm not willing to allow his total message get thrown away because of the political issue it comes wrapped in. I'd rather prefer to use that "skin" to grease the skids to change and deal with the issue at another time…….a later bite of the same apple if you will.
Thanks! Sorry I missed the stellar second day, but going to this was sorta like drinking a gallon of coconut oil. Good for you, ya, but rich, so rich, and all at once. Now as for the science/research environment, I have seen usually-sensible and open-minded scientists who are still firmly captured by the diet/heart hypothesis become absolutely rabid when paleo is even mentioned, so we really need to continue doing some productive work in that arena.
One nice thing about attending live paleo theater is that we aren't influenced by Dr. Oz's editors. Taubes' comments didn't end up on the cutting room floor this time. Reactions were firmly, "did you hear that????" both from attendees who love a good food fight and those who thought Taubes was out of line. (Personally I thought he was spot on.) And, it was nice to see that it is OK to have some debate. It seemed more like real science instead of the joke that conventional nutritional science has become.
awesome recap!!! i cant wait for the lustig talk to come up on you tube, i wont get any work done at my job when it does haha. i already have a feeling i will need to relisten 5 times.
curious, did any speakers touch on eating disorders??
Agreed, I'll be home tonight, returning from vacation. If I had the chance, I'd ask him, "Rob, do you really want the same people who brought us myplate.gov to be regulating our sugar consumption?"
Wow! I will have to reread this post a couple times to get all the meat you've given us from the conference. It is so heartening to see how your ideas, along with Taubes, Lustig, et al, are spreading.
We all have a duty to help people when we know something can be done. The key is how do we do it in this current healthcare system. I am doing it daily in my practice and I have some strong ideas of how it should be structured. I look at the current healthcare system as huge aircraft carrier that could kill this community quite easily if they wanted to. Right now they dont even know it exists. So this is the time to use our size and science and craftiness to examine where the weak spots and cracks are in the hull and that is where we attack. When you are persistent and diligent you will win no matter how big the obstacle. The system is designed to treat sick people and not healthy people. Moreover, it thrives on the sick patients. It runs them through their assembly lines and has "recipes" to deliver for treatments for chronic diseases that don't cure……they prolong the disease. That way you will come back frequently and often. The Paleo community does not fit this system. It makes zero sense to fit a round peg in a square whole. But is the idea great…..yep. underwriters and insurance companies would line up to have healthy folks as their main core patients. But it would require new ideas and new practices methods. Some of those things I have been doing live in my own clinic for four years in the engine room of that large battleship. I know every nook and cranny of that bad boy and how to get in and out and get things done that need to be done.
@ Que……great point and its why Feinman really thinks something else is driving the bus so to speak. But Lustig is a force that need to be focused directly upon the weak links in the system to sink the ship. Samething with Taubes. I am just the guy loading the torpedo's.
The scientists in the paleo community see things differently than a clinician. Their world and our world are like comparing a cornfield in Iowa to mid town Manhattan. And those difference need to be realized and then focus like a lazer beam to hit the weak spots in the current healthcare system. I will tell you how I think about the AHS 2011 right now…….The community is filled with bright minds supported by deep science but that light is like sunlight….it nourishes those who bask in it…..but it needs to be transformed to a laser beam and focused directly at the real problem in order to bring the changes we all seek and need. That is precisely how I see the current state of affairs.
Mallory nobody talked eating disorders. I am hoping Emily Deans steps that up because Anorexia kills more people in psychiatry alone as a disease than ALL OTHER psychiatric diseases combined. That to me needs to be addressed. And in my view she is the master blogger.
I was at AHS as a volunteer and was in the audience when you and Lustig had a disagreement after Chris Masterjohns talk on Cholesterol. It was like Foreman and Ali just stood up and starting duking it out and it was stellar to watch!
I hope you are just one of the many drs that will get on board with eating real food for healing. I wish my oncologists was among them.. when I was first diagnosed with CLL and asked for dietary help, he said "Well, you probably should not eat red meat." Needless to say I ignored that advice.
Thanks again, hope to meet you at the next AHS,
Debbie…..strong recommendation to you. Read my blog on the oncogenesis levee. You will like what I posted there. And an even stronger rec that you buy David Servan Schreibers book called Anticancer, A New Way of Life. I Rx it to every cancer patient I see and I even told Laurie my new oncology buddy on this thread about the book. This is a must have for any person with or without cancer. After all I believe cancer is 100% preventable and this book proves my theories are not out there.
Hi Jack, I 'm the oncologist you met at AHS. I am loving your blog–it's lighting my brain on fire. You have put together here all the threads of info that have been coming into my consciousness since I started my "homeschool medical school" in a way that makes total sense and is clinically applicable. (and I've gotten through only a few of the posts so far). Already I can see that I haven't been specific enough with my recommendations to patients which is why I think I haven't gotten the kind of buy-in I would like. I thought i knew what i was doing just counseling people on low carb–holy-moly, I've just stuck my toe in the water! You are truly an inspiration.
Well I loved meeting you and I did send the consult for your "patient" back to her over the ipad. When she gets everything together tell her to call me. And I had to include you in my blog……you were that important.
Hi Jack, I only recently found your blog and wanted to talk with you, but didn’t get a chance. I was one of the volunteers and didn’t get a chance to attend as many of the presentations as I would have liked. In any case, great synopsis. Denise Minger’s talk was a blast. I also was very impressed by Nora Gedgaudas’ work.
I can’t wait for the videos to come out.
my telomeres are now at 29 years old
May I ask, what test(s) indicate the length of our telomeres? Can these easily be done?
Good for you brother! Stand up for what you believe in, one man can make a difference. I am very proud of you, and mommy would be too!
Dr. Kruse, Thanks for the wrap-up. I didn't get to officially introdue myself but we were mutually participatory in a couple sall Paleo pow wows durng the course of the weekend. Thank you for your contribution. Hope to see you present at future symposia.
Hi Jack, Lance here all the way from New Zealand, I soooo wish I could have been at the AHS to see what you have seen and to have met the people you met there. In regards to Dr Lustigs talk Im super curious to have a quick summary of what you heard in regards to leptin resistance and this new paper I hear you talking of. I have followed every podcast and every video he speaks in as I am very interested in his hypothosis of Hyperinsulinemia blocking leptin signal transduction, could you please give me some of his new points he made at the AHS talk? thanks heaps!
Dr Lustig made this comment to me. He said that leptin was the starvation hormone. True……but not totally the whole story. My issue with him after his original youtube success was that he left leptin totally out. I said this in my Jimmy Moore podcast In March. My view on leptin is much broader still. Leptin is the master hormone of the brain to monitor energy balance in the body. Why? What happens when some one is 400 lbs? And when they are anorexic seeing a shrink? They both have high reverse T3 and are severely LR. Leptin plays a role in starvation and obesity……and it controls insulin and not vice versa. But he is closer now than he ever was and that is a great thing. Plus I think he is a good guy who just lives in a place that has usurped his political side. LOL
Hey, Doc, I've been reading up on everything you've said on the web. On paleohack you said this below about those who have done the hcg diet. I've lost 75 pounds on it and have kept it off so I'm a HUGE fan of the protocol. It's worked for me beautifully. So here's what you said and the question:
Transitioning to paleo is ideal after HCG. Make sure your paleo stays away from dairy when you come back. Strong rec there. Has to do with the mu opioid receptor because this is what HCG also effects and why it works for 5-8 weeks.
Me again: so why should the paleo stay away from dairy after hcg? Is the ban permanent? I eat heavy cream in my coffee and some cheese. But I"m wondering if some of the stabilization issues I sometimes see on our big hcg forum has to do with dairy? We have been discussing your ideas extensively here http://hcgdietinfo.com/hcgdietforums/f6/leptin-di… We started out just discussing leptin then one of the gals discovered you and we've all been following and trying to implement.
dairy has huge apomorphine effects…..and they act on the mu receptor that HCG acts upon……that is why. I would avoid it for the first six months of the transition.
Thanks for attending AHS, and I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you (and doubly sorry if we did meet but I forgot!). Ever since I heard you're amazing interview on Jimmy's podcast, I knew you belonged at the AHS.
David Pendergrass was at my house the week before the conference working on his masterful poster, but I didn't get a chance to see the finished product as I was being pulled six ways from sunday in running the symposium. I hear it provides a lot of the answers to the gentle argument between Lustig and Feinman.
Your story is very touching and I'm glad the symposium accomplished for you one of its primary goals: to bring folks from all walks of life together to move forward with a serious challenge to the health and health care debacle of the 21st century. Can't wait to see you again at AHS12 next year!
Thanks Aaron for the nice words. I enjoyed my time there. I needed to get with Dr Lustig because I felt his theory was missing leptin for a long time. I still think they way he framed leptin is incomplete…….but where he is right now is better than he was two years ago. As for their spat……I think both have a point. But instead of focusing on what we cant agree on we all need to focus in on what we do agree on and what we can accomplish if we work together.
@cbg……here you go. http://www.spectracell.com/telomere-testing/ Bring a checkbook cause it is not cheap. But if you believe in a quantified self feedback platform this is the ultimate test of what you think you believe and an acid test for what you really know or dont know.
It is cool to read all the coverage of AHS 2012. Such a great idea and it seems to have been executed flawlessly.
@Jack Healthcare and hospitals need to change there attitudes about where they intervene in the population's health. Right now the point of intervention is at the point of a noticeable problem which stems from much greater issues. The ACO concept is great in theory but unfortunately it is built on a swmpy base that can not hold it up. Kaiser has the right concept but the wrong ideals. It will be up to Docs like you to change the whole community from a prescribe a pill solution to a prescribe a lifestyle solution. I am going through this right now with my chronically diseased MIL and the list of a dozen sripts that her doc has her on. I got her to drop the statins right away as I see zero benefit in her taking them but the rest of the drugs are masking symptoms and side effects of other drugs. It is disgusting to say the least and then she is on tracleer for which she has to get liver tests every month. It is an extremely disturbing cycle.
Colleen, thanks for that link. I've started using Jack's Leptin plan to see how it goes this month. In my case I was ketogenic for a few weeks before starting, so it's really not a big deal to modify my eating plan. If either leptin or insulin is the primary driver original Akins (as actually practiced by most) or Jacks version of a leptin plan are pretty close.
In my case I've know for years that 1) Protein at breakfast reduced hunger and 2) I sleep deeper not eating in the evening. Seeing Jack plan I had a 'doh' moment. Why not just put it all together.
One thing the typically younger and fitter Paleo people don't appreciate is that all this restricted eating is difficult until the livers processes are cleaned up. I think there are a lot of Paleo people giving advice that is not going to work well with people with liver issues and significant metabolic syndrome.
I expect that many people who are older are never going to be able to eat higher carb Paleo successfully. I don't think that a successful Paleo maintenance plan will usually need to be ketogenic, but it will often need to be carb controlled. "It Depends" – that fact of life is not appreciated enough by most of the enthusiastic Paleo community.
I don't know if you aware that David Servan-Schreiber died in late June. His brain cancer finally took him.
He had been seriously ill for over a year. He greatly inspired me with the anti cancer book and his other book, Healing without Freud or Prozac.
I wonder, and will now probably never know if he had changed his views on advocating eating whole grains?
A great man who I blame for me stinking of garlic on a permanent basis!
RIP David, you will be sadly missed but always remembered.
Yes I do realize that Bill, but his tumor in the literature carries a 99% death rate at 1 year. He lived over 15 years with this diagnosis. He was not going to live a long life and as a researcher and doctor he knew that. But with the changes he did make and the fact that he ate a ketogenic diet that reduced carbs and increased MCT and avoided whole grains is the primary reason he became an outlier. There is much to learn from this case. Every oncologist and primal person should read this book. Why? If you can have that horrendous diagnosis and make it 15 years with it can you only imagine what your own longevity might be if you tweeked your dietary protocol now before you ever get sick? You might extend longevity 20-40 years. that is what many of the young paleo/primal people need to take away from cases like this. Its all about controlling our epigenetic switches before they ever cause disease. This is the basis of my Quilt. I want to share with the world what we know and what we dont know. then people can make an educated opinion of what they should do.
Hi Dr. Jack,
Wish I would have recognized you among the attendees,
Yes you are right, next years conference somehow some way we get contacts,
Remember Nassim Taleb's reminder "keep open the window of serendipity "
Dr. Kruse – I wanted to continue the conversation we started to have at AHS about tying ancestral health concepts into the US health care system. I really appreciate your enthusiasm on this topic and I think there are definitely areas of common ground.
The point Brent and I wanted to make during our presentation is that there are a number of ways to enact change in the health care system and alignment is important in this process. I mentioned the VA and Kaiser because both systems have the proper incentives to be areas of experimentation. Since both systems would reap any savings from reduced patient health care expenses, they are good candidates for an ancestral health initiative. This is just one potential example of an opportunity to tie the two communities together. Experimentation can happen in a number of arenas at a variety of levels. Another example would be businesses that could provide a paleo employee wellness program which could reduce their health insurance costs. Also, as Brent mentioned during the presentation, innovation could also occur completely outside of existing institutions. This route will require a different implementation strategy and lots of clinicians on board. It's impossible to predict which experimentation route will pay off and so all we should explore all of these paths. I would welcome your suggestions for how to further the ancestral health movement in the health care system.
Joe……we need this to be a major topic at next years event. AHS need a few clinical talks in my view. I have a spine talk that be very interesting to many in this community. I could show you how I took cases from beginning to end using a new model. I have been doing this a long time now as a specialist. I wish you had come up to me out at UCLA because I can show you what we have already built on a web based platform. PaleoConnect is going to be the platform. And it will have zero to do with a hospital system. It will be a plug and play module that will use the hospital when we need it. It will be able to connect every paleo doc with their patient and get second opinions in a matter of seconds. This is why information sharing is good. We all have good ideas. we all need to listen too. Mine are based upon the horrible healthcare system and understanding how to fully leverage the good, bad and ugly. I know what patients want and what they cant get. I also know what hospitals want……and I wont let them have. The patients and doctors can make a win win platform and make the healthcare system come to us at their knees. I have a different outlook than you guys completely.
Off topic alert! Dr K, I was very moved by what you wrote about your wife's horse. I came across this post this evening and wondered if you had seen it? Here's the link: http://thatpaleoguy.com/2011/10/10/neolithic-equi…
Hi dr k. Is there a database of closet paleo doctors somewhere?